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honestman
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Posted: Sunday December 31st, 2006 09:12 am |
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So, on my last day I awoke without a hangover. This is not a good sign, I have been here before, so I realised this was not good. I wanted to spend some possible time with my "friend" on my last day so I decided to clean up the apartment before I left. I cleaned it as best I could and made sure I cleaned the bathroom. My lady arrived at about twelve and immaculately made up as usual and all smiles again, looked around and thanked me for tidying up, so, after a final check, we departed to go to her flat. Once there she prepared a meal and I had to say my goodbyes to that ever so dear dog of hers. The dog must sense that I was going because, instead of starting on my leg again, it jumped up onto my lap and pushed its head into me, so at least my leg had a rest for that final day. After the meal I sat and watched the television and chatted a little to her daughter. My lady is going in and out the rooms and disappeared into the bathroom for a while. After she appears, I needed to use the bathroom and once in there I smelt cigarette smoke, and now I am annoyed. I came out of the bathroom and confronted my lady she can see on my face some discontent..."what is matter?" I said that she smoked and wish to know how many.... "skolka?" It is amazing how dumb she pretended to be and not understand me. (this happened on one or two occasions during my stay) "People in England smoke, I see on television. all my friends smoke, my colleagues, anyhow you drank too much last night and I say nothing" She had a point (but two wrongs do not make a right) and she said maybe she smokes one or two with her friends. This woman was not a social smoker, she was a habitually smoker who never smoked in front of me. Yeah right I thought to myself, why hide a habit, I said to her that from the start we had to be honest, she was clearly not. I say to my lady that I think we needed a two weeks break to see what we thought about our relationship, and she was reluctant. I am still confused about the whole experience of the past two weeks and cannot believe I asked her this question "Would you like me to come back to visit you?" I do not know where my head was but it was not right, maybe the effects of last nights drink. She gets out what I thought were her English books and she says that she will learn English "one hour every day" So now before I leave I need to pay for my flat, so I asked her and she said it cost $220, and I was very pleased with that amount, it worked out to about $14 a day!! She called a taxi, and it soon arrived to take us to the train station, and on the way we stopped off outside a hardware shop. We got out while the taxi waited and inside this shop I was amazed at the items on display. It was like I had gone through a time machine and arrived in 1956. The items were so antiquated with nuts and bolts on display in cabinets, gas cookers and old fashioned washing machines. Two ladies were working there and my lady is looking at an electric heater. She asked me, and knowing that electricity is expensive in the FSU I chose a less powerful model and of course, slightly cheaper model. It was not an expensive model and I did not mind buying this practical item. The heater is taken out of its box and plugged in to test it. My lady checked the heater over with a fine tooth comb, with the usual scrutiny I understood now, and there was a slight imperfection with the powder coating on the top. Disaster!! This will not do!! So another came out and is tested and worked. I paid and we left with the precious heater. In the taxi to the station she reached out to hold my hand and, without actually looking at me. said, in perfect English " I love you". I flippantly replied " I love you too". Thinking very little of my words. We get to the train station and wait for her mother to arrive. She had been working all day and wanted to say goodbye personally. She arrived and her warm glowing smile I still picture in my mind today. I kiss each lady, and for the first time my lady kisses me on the lips, but very briefly. I look though the train window and my lady is looking and smiling at me all the time. A look of love, I will never ever know. Now I am even more confused and disorientated, but at least now I could collect my thoughts. I was given strict instructions on my arrival at Moscow to ask for the cost for taxi and this I managed with consummate ease. A reasonable rate and I looked at my driver and could tell that I could trust him. I probably spoke more Russian to him than I had done in the previous two weeks and was very contented. He dropped me off outside the airport, we shake hands, and finally I got my flight home that afternoon. The next few weeks I was to torture myself further until I finally came round to my senses and eventually my instincts were never going to let me down.
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honestman
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Posted: Sunday December 31st, 2006 10:02 am |
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Once in England, it took me a few days to adjust and I was still thinking too much and confused about the events that I had instigated. I started to seek answers to my and my lady's behaviour. The odd occurrences and events, was this to do with our cultural differences? I sought sanity by going on to forums and websites and tried top gather as much information as I could. I even went to visit a man who was marrying a RW from the same city to ask him on his experience. It took him six months to propose to his RW so I did gain some comfort about the time scale, but things were not right, but I carried on in my gritty determination and blind belief. One (a WM who lives in Russia) expert suggested the " I love you " from her was not, in his mind, right and he called it a big red flag. I still intended to go out again (if things had not progressed then I was quite prepared to finish our relationship) and the on the telephone to her I said I would like to come out sooner rather than later. "No, come out in January, when I can give you more time" she said. So I opted for this but things still were not right and I continued to question myself. I continued to write letters and send flowers and gifts, I even sent money for her to learn English. She told me stories that she had a long chat with her friend and a long chat with her daughter. My birthday was coming up and I was expecting a letter or card in the post, all I received was an e-card and an e-mail and I was disappointed that she had not even tried to send anything in the post and she said that my present was waiting for me in her flat and I could have it when I come back. I finally, finally saw the light and my lady had done it all for me, bless her. I asked her when would she like me out there and assumed that she would want me there for their ever important New Years celebrations, however she said "if you come out on the 3 or 4 January that would be perfect" I was shocked to say the least. There was no doubt in my mind that I should be there for these all important celebrations, so I wrote back and just told her that I was coming out on the 30 December and I expected to see her then. She sat on this letter for a few days and now the cracks were appearing. She did not know how to answer me and her next letter to avoid me seeing her at the New Year was farcical to say the least. I thought over a couple of days and my final letter to her was written and sent. I should have ended the relationship long ago but this manipulative woman had finally lost her ability to manipulate me, and I sensed she knew it. Even in the last few days of telephone calls her reaction to what I had written and said was just wrong. I even asked her what her honest feelings were for me and she said she would write to me the next day, but she did not, but I already new I just had to listen to my basic instinct, and for me in my particular situation, all it took was thirty seconds at the train station, in her city, when I first set eyes on her.
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honestman
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Posted: Sunday December 31st, 2006 11:04 am |
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My first effort in finding a Russian wife has been an amazing experience, and although my mistakes were glaringly obvious, and my attempts (at times)futile, I did what I thought was right at the time. This Russian woman, for all her external beauty, had me sussed after our first few e-mails and coolly used me to her advantage. In her world, kindness is seen as weakness and so the future was mapped out for me. This woman, like all Russian women have nothing to lose by putting their pretty faces on the internet, and yet so much to gain. My first time in Russia has humbled me in a way I did not think was possible. I do not seek pity or criticism for my actions, and I write my story in this Forum for the benefit of western men seeking a bride in the FSU and I take full responsibility for my actions. We westerners look at the world and never really know what goes on overseas. Only 5% of men, who write to these women, actual go over to see them and I was not going to be in the 95%. The lives of these Russian woman are tough and because of that, they live on a basic level, and with remarkable tenacity, intelligence and beauty. So, by living at this level, they cannot hide their body language and for all my lady's talk, she was never going to be able to hide this from me. The two photos below were taken on my last day in her flat, minutes apart. My lady with her daughter, and my lady with me. Her body is facing away from me, and her back is toward me, yet only two hours later she is confessing "I love you" in the taxi to the train station for my departure. Another poignant point was her obsessive and jealous nature of keeping me in the flat in her city, a clear indication of what my role was to be for her. I know other men would have walked earlier, but I learned an awful lot, just by belief and gritty determination and my many many photographs I took were all so telling. If I could make an analogy of my experience it is this: she was a conductor of an orchestra, and I was the orchestra. She had her orchestra performing some amazing music, and to the gallery. One day the conductor stopped conducting. So the orchestra stopped playing. The music stopped, there was no more music. My experience has empowered me in a way that is hard to describe, but now on my next trip I will participate instead of observing and I know my basic instinct will never let me down. The next time, I will be the conductor, because I know some music now.
"Knowledge itself is power"
Francis Bacon
1561-1626
Without knowledge there is no progress. Without progress I can only stand still.
Attachment: rwpsummaryphoto.JPG (Downloaded 108 times) Last edited on Sunday December 31st, 2006 12:02 pm by honestman
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ronin1
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Posted: Sunday December 31st, 2006 09:36 pm |
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honestman,
You have outdone yourself. Some much writing is such a short time. To me it is the details that bring to light what others should be looking for. Though the out come is not what you or others would envision as a result of a first visit, it is an all too often finale.
The consolation is that it could have been worse. You did see the signs and upon retroflection you came to the correct assessment of the situation. Some may have been strung along for more visits before realising this... if at all.
Knowledge is indeed power. Your experience is a education in RW that few will ever get. I can tell that you have seen the light and now understand the 'nature of the beast' in the first round match. There is still much more to learn, however once over the cultural 'hump' understanding flows quickly.
In truth many WM have and will experience similar events. The big difference is that few will have the candor, honesty and courage to shares such experiences to others. For this I and many others thank you for your contribution.
Ronin
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honestman
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Posted: Thursday January 4th, 2007 10:30 pm |
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Thank you Ronin. I think my story highlights the importance of "chemistry" and that it works on a biological level, especially with RW. IMO it is so important to go out to visit a RW in her own "back yard" so to speak, sooner rather than later. I am now corresponding with a few RW and I will not leave it too long before I go out to see if there is "chemistry" between us. However if there is not, so what. I will just move on!!
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Toujours_Pret
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Posted: Friday January 5th, 2007 09:12 pm |
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Honestman, I must admit, my hat’s off to you mate. I have read and re-read your account of your discovery in the FSU. IMO many a lesser man would have been completely disgusted and thought the whole idea was just bang wrong. Kudos to you sir. In fact your posting is what prompted me to register instead of hanging in the shadows.
I have a tale of my own about a Ukrainian family I met and their efforts to “hook me up” with the wife’s younger sister. What an eye opening adventure that was. My story is nothing like yours, as I had the advantage of being on my own turf. Ultimately their best efforts failed, but it was entirely my decision to end things. The young lady and I parted friends and should I visit Kiev, she said she would provide some contacts for me there so I wouldn’t be “on my own in the city”. I will post as soon as I can figure out how to descriptively relate the tale while protecting that family’s privacy and finding the appropriate heading to post under.
As they used to say in my old cavalry regiment, “Scouts out sir!” and “Good hunting” Honestman, we’re rooting for you here in the States.
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honestman
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Posted: Wednesday January 10th, 2007 01:27 pm |
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| Thank you t-p for your reply. When I embarked on my search I was always suspicious about the method. What works for one man will not necessarily work for another. In my case (and I would urge others to read) a lengthy campaign of e-mails and letter writing gave me a false outlook. I look at it this way: it is just the same as if you were looking for a woman in your own country. You e-mail a bit, get to see if there is any interest, and then you would meet her at the earliest opportunity and is no different for RW. My advice IMO is to e-mail a few, narrow it down a bit and get out to the FSU sooner rather than later.
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honestman
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Posted: Saturday February 17th, 2007 01:32 pm |
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So my search continues and so the next stop for me is Uzbekistan, in the last week of March. After my experience last year  I got straight into writing to about ten to fifteen women from the FSU. I must admit the letter writing was frantic and the replies very interesting up and over our and their christmas and New Year activities. Now I am down to about three women and so it happens that the furthest away from me will be the first I will visit this year. She is 15 years my junior but I do not have a problem with this. My attitude is totally different this time round and I am going for the best part of a week and my lady has promised to devote all her time to me!! 
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ronin1
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Posted: Sunday February 18th, 2007 08:38 am |
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honestman,
You are sure to have better luck the second time around. Many would have thrown in the towel after such a dismal first trip. You show that you have the commitment to see it through... a needed trait in staying married to a RW in the initial trying times.
Good Luck,
Ronin
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honestman
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Posted: Thursday March 29th, 2007 06:59 pm |
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So here I am again. Round two of my attempt to find my future life partner abroad. This time I am more than ready for what awaits me. I still question my sanity at times but at least now I have a completely different mindset to the first time and this is based on my first experience. The woman I went to see is much younger than me, 15 years younger. But she lives in Uzbekistan, much further south in the world than the previous woman. I was very suspicious about this second woman from her reply to my first e-mail. She presented 'an ocean with the sea of love' Yeah.... great...... I thought to myself, the first red flag! Then her e-mails were electronically translated, another red flag ( as far as I am concerned, this could be a scammer) Electronic translation is open to interpretation and I could just about understand her letters although she had already translated with her translator. This woman was semi exotic, and with her first e-mail came the attachments of her shown her in her bikini, and ...another red flag! She tells me in her next letter 'I like to keep my body in the beautiful sexual form' ok I have to agree (@@) but the wording is odd. So her reply to my e-mails are sent back almost straight away and I am impressed with the rate of response. We wrote to each other about twice a week and after my first RW I am not getting into a long winded e-mail correspondence. So time goes on and up and over christmas and the New Year she was one of the few (I am from ten to about three now) who put any kind of effort into replying to my e-mails. She told me she did not work, heck another red flag, so far I appear to be on some sort of suicide mission!!!!! At this point, if I continue I am considering some sort of medication. Her English was a level 7/10 so I call her on the telephone and although I am a little nervous there is a calm relaxed manner about me. We chat ok but she corrects my limited Russian over the phone, just like the previous woman. I am not sure how it came about but the suggestion of a visit to see her emerged.....curiosity killed the cat. . I deeply consider whether a visit is really worth it................The scenarios are endless, due to my suspicious mind.....
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honestman
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Posted: Wednesday April 11th, 2007 07:59 pm |
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So I researched a little more about Uzbekistan and I was intrigued by this country. It has much to offer, but like many former FSU countries it is still trying to re-establish itself. After more research it comes to my attention there is a spring festival, something called 'navrus'-a celebration where small amounts of the first shoots of wheat for the year are cut and 'liquid bread' is formed. Sounds like an unusual concoction I thought, but how will I ever know? So I research a bit more and find that this time of the year was ideal to visit. Also, the lady I was visiting is going to show me her country, I am going now. Two reasons. To see the country and to see if this woman could be my future life partner. It could all go horribly wrong as soon as I step off the aeroplane in Tashkent (the country's capital) but it is risk I am prepared to take. I make sure I regularly speak to my lady up to the visit and so I sort my visa application(getting my letter of invitation via the internet) and book my ticket. I remember my last lady and wonder if I will get a similar reaction when I meet this second lady...............my own reaction
Last edited on Wednesday April 11th, 2007 08:00 pm by honestman
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honestman
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Posted: Friday May 18th, 2007 10:47 pm |
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When my aeroplane landed in Tashkent there was some confusion over which bus I was supposed to get on. (Tashkent is a stopover airport for some far east cities)After the third attempt  , I got on the correct bus for the terminal, and once inside through passport control, no problem, My lady soon after telephoned me on my mobile "where are you?" ..... "waiting for my luggage, I will be with you soon"... I replied...At least she was there . Eventually I get through and when I first set eyes on my lady....well....I was slightly surprised. After my first lady I was expecting some effort but this second lady did not look her best (I had some very nice pictures sent by e-mail) and I really thought she had not put much effort in, however, in all fairness to her, it was the early hours of the morning so I understood why. We greeted each other and we took a taxi to "our" apartment. I was certainly more relaxed about everything and wondered what was going to happen in the days ahead. My lady had arranged for us both to visit the major cities in her country and wow! did we travel!! 
Last edited on Friday May 18th, 2007 10:50 pm by honestman
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honestman
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Posted: Saturday July 28th, 2007 09:30 pm |
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So, another woman from the FSU,... ok... different country but her initial reaction and body language was similar in ways to the first woman. Actually, with my first experience my attitude was somewhat different and again within a short time my instincts were correct. This was another wrong choice of lifetime partner but my plan was to enjoy the time with a 'friend' and explore the country. If romance was to appear then it will take its time. So in the next week aeroplanes, taxis (ooer!!) and trains...we visited four of the major cities in Uzbekistan and my lady was very thoughtful in sorting english speaking guides where possible. Food and accommodation was incredibly cheap, and yes, I spent some money, and bought my lady some things, but I did say NO to a new mobile phone for her. But what a week! !! I saw so much and I would recommend to anyone to tour this wonderful country and see the sights. I was lucky to have an excellent lady who spoke enough english to converse with, and above all, have a laugh with. She was not my type of woman but very attractive, and this I feel can and is a serious downfall in seeking a wife from overseas. She, unfortunately smoked (even though her profile says she did not) and this to a degree put me off. It was clear from her early e-mails to me that she just wanted to leave the country. After conversations with her I realised that, if I did take this woman's hand then it would be for the wrong reason because she just wanted to leave her country for the wrong reason, and so I departed at the airport but not so dissapointed with my week. The week was a fantastic holiday and experience, but there was no romance. So onward with my third trip.... and another holiday....but a very different type of holiday, and a different type of woman. If any body wants tips or further advice to this country (Uzbekistan)then I would be glad to help.
Last edited on Saturday July 28th, 2007 09:32 pm by honestman
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Pushkin
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Posted: Friday August 17th, 2007 06:09 am |
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Thanks a lot, honestman, actually your experiences mirror mine -- actually very closely. Reading your account has helped me a lot, in understanding my experiences.
I live and work in California, USA, and was born here, and I've met with 5 women that I met online (1 in Russia and 4 in Ukraine) and dated 3 women that my language teachers have set me up with (2 in Moscow and 1 in Ukraine). I studied Russian language in those one on one programs in Moscow and Odessa, Ukraine.
RW behavior is not rational -- so it seems we are trying to find a reason why they do what they are doing but none exists, so we don't find a reason and it's frustrating and mind boggling. If you look at http://aacap.org/cs/root/publication_store/your_child_oppositional_defiant_disorder the description of living with Oppositional Defiant Disorder is quite similiar to living with Russian women, I've think. (note that for me, in addition to the above, I have lived with two Russian women in Moscow).
In summary of the Conduct Disorder explanation, in order to be rational and empathetic, a person has to develop their thinking centers of their brain -- that is, in scientific terms, the prefrontal cortex. Conduct disorders are associated with lower development in the prefrontal cortex. See: http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/37/7/24 Russian women on average are never taught to be considerate, had no religion to tell them "treat others as you'd like to be treated" so the planning, empathy and reasoning centers of the brain (higher thinking centers) are undeveloped. All their school work is very difficult memorization (tough and long hours in schools and universities, but doesn't develop critical thinking). In order to be rational, you have to have reasons for your behavior, by definition. Russian women on average, don't have reasons for their behavior because they do not have the capability to do so.
A shocking explanation, yes, -- a neurological explanation, but have to say I think it's the explanation that works the best -- people do not develop rationality and empathy without effort Not to be disrespectful of Russia, as I would say we have the same problems here in the US, anxiety disorders are exploding, up to 19.1 million cases -- see http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0PWA/is_2005_July_13/ai_n17214836. (anxiety and conduct disorders both stem from inadequate development/imparement of the prefrontal cortex). Anyway, just wanted to chime in that, hope you found that useful.
Last edited on Friday August 17th, 2007 06:13 am by Pushkin
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honestman
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Posted: Tuesday August 21st, 2007 03:55 pm |
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| Hi Pushkin, great information. Thank you. Now... my third lady has a twist on my story/discovery and one I wish to share with fellow WM looking for a bride from the FSU and why I will recommend that no sane WM pursue the particular route, time and effort , that I have done, with this lady. It is still continuing, but for how long?... I cannot say, well perhaps it will highlight some of the cultural differences and why I must share my experiences with WM (ok...my story will not so long winded as the first lady and my discovery, but one I feel very poignant and relevant to all WM seeking a bride from the FSU and one which I know I will never repeat again! But, my search and efforts will continue!! Last edited on Tuesday August 21st, 2007 04:14 pm by honestman
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honestman
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Posted: Tuesday October 30th, 2007 09:37 pm |
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| Ok round three!! and my third lady and this time a young lady from the Ukraine (15 years my junior) This lady was completely different from the first two but we had terrible communication problems because my limited Russian was as good as her English. ie not wonderful!! I made different errors to my first lady and I will explain a little more in the future how easy it is to ignore red flags and even trap yourself into thinking something is there when it is not. This lady was not cold and calculating (well to be honest, I do not really know, and will never really know). In fact she was a dream to me and I felt we did have a future, but it was not to be. I am a one man woman, and after the first two ladies this one was perfect...perhaps too perfect!! She did not smoke, she was very attractive, and of course the perfect body. We e-mailled at first and it was clear that she was hankering for a holiday....
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ronin1
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Posted: Thursday November 1st, 2007 08:37 am |
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honestman,
Good to hear that you made it back in one piece. Third visit... you are becoming the ardent veteran.
You say many of her attributes are ideal. The 15 year age difference sounds about idea in my mind. No smoking, attractive and great bod... then you hint that things can go terribly wrong and stop mid sentence.
OK, time to spill the beans... is the third time the charm or is it strike three... you're out?
Ronin
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